No Action

If motions are made and approved by Board, but president does not follow through and carry out what was agreed to, what can homeowners do that does entail waiting for election or recall? Will small claims court hear case (CA?)

Sorry, it's late here. The board can remove the president from office if it elects its officers vs members electing officers.

But insufficient votes to remove from president office.

Susan,

There isn't anything the members can do. Where are all the other board members? Perhaps it was decided not to follow through with a particular motion that was made. If you are not a member of the board you may not be a party to everything the board decides to do. If the other board members are concerned that the Pres is not following through on motions approved then they can remove him a pres. If on the other hand, the members are concerned that certain maint projects are not being undertaken then they can bring up those issues at a board meeting. If gov docs or state law is not being violated there may not be cause for a small claims action.

Janet & Snake,

The OP stated the Pres is not following through on motions made and wanted to know what the members can do about it. I answered that the members cannot do anything because this is not an issue for the members to be involved in. First of all we don't know what the motions were. And secondly we don't know if the board decided not to follow through with a project outside of the board meeting. Of course the members have a right to recall any board member who isn't performing his job properly but they should have definite proof of that before taking that action.

BTW, if you read my whole response you will note that I ended by saying: "If on the other hand, the members are concerned that certain maint projects are not being undertaken then they can bring up those issues at a board meeting. If gov docs or state law is not being violated there may not be cause for a small claims action."

Janet,

Your statement that the board is supposed to represent the members is incorrect; they represent the assn and have a fiduciary resp. to do what is best for the assn -- not the members. And, from the little bit that the OP posted, you don't know that the board isn't doing their duty -- only that the Pres isn't following through on motions. What these motions were for we also don't know!

Mary,

This is from the Florida Condominium Governance Form:

General
1. The board of directors has a fiduciary duty to the unit owners and has the responsibility to act with the highest degree of good faith and to place the interests of the unit owners above the personal interests of the directors.

If you would like to view this document in its entirety the link is below:

http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/lsc/documents/CondoGovernanceFormMaster06252010.pdf

IMO, the members ARE the association!

Snake

You must have read my mind. I like where you come from.

The very same attitude and cavalierness will change the makeup of politics in Washington this November. If 75% of your members voiced their opposition to a ptoject, then that project had better be tabled for lack of support. I think Mary is tired from posting so much lately.

Although I disagree with Mary declaring Janet’s statement incorrect, I must state that there are times that the BOD must make decisions that may not necessarily be popular among the majority of members. Our parking rules are a perfect example. If it was left up to the majority of our members, parking on the street would be allowed, however that would be in direct violation of the Florida Fire Prevention Code and the members’ safety comes before their personal convenience!

Thanks Lori & Susan,

The BOD is elected to manage the assn and to do what is in the best interest of the ASSOCIATION! The members do not always know what the gov docs say, much less state law. It would not be uncommon for a large number of the members, perhaps even a majority, to want to do something that violates the CCRs and/or state law. So, should the board do it just because the members want it? I think not! Of course the members always have the ability to recall those "errant" board members who thought they knew best. I know of numerous cases where this happened only to find out, after new, more knowing board members were seated, that the previous board was right in their decisions -- they weren't doing anything wrong. Which only lends more credence to the fact that in most instances the members don't always know what is right! And no, I'm not down on members; I'm one myself. But I am a member who is educated -- I know what my gov docs and state law say. I'm not going to accuse the board of violating either w/o knowing for sure that they are. Unlike most members who like to make unsubstantiated claims. Those of you who took exception to my opinion were quick to say the board should be recalled without even knowing what the motions made were about or even if the board made a different decision outside the board room. That tells me that you like to think the member is always right and also tells me that you don't know much about HOAs except maybe your own. If you'd been involved with HOAs for as many years as I have and have seen both sides of the picture with an objective mind (objectivity is very important!) then I like to think your attitude would be much different.

In response to the OP, IF the President decided to continually act in defiance of the motions approved by the Board, THEN the President, should be removed as an officer and demoted to a member at large. IF that doesn't work as you eluded to, THEN bring the issue to the members and give them the option of recalling or electing someone else at the annual election (it depends on when their term is up)

Too many Boards hold the membership hostage because they know that they can't be voted out, because quorum is too high to count votes. I am working with my Assembly-person in California to change the Davis-Stirling Act to eliminate quorum once and for all from all HOA's. Maybe then, Boards will be more responive to the community and follow ALL the laws, not pick and choose the ones they want.

Richard,

I just have to ask what makes you think that we didn’t openly present the regulations regarding parking? Are you kidding? With the exception of tattooing the information on their foreheads, everyone has been well informed! Heck, we even had a fire and had at least 10 emergency vehicles respond, so you’d think they’d get the message.

And as far as being elected…what a joke! When the developer turned over, there were only 5 members that submitted their interest in being on the
5-member board. According to Fl. Condo Law (we’re a condo), if there are not more candidates than vacancies, no election is necessary! Every year, it’s the same story…we never have an election because we never have enough candidates to hold one. This is very sad because someone has got to run the business! So, it always comes down to the same, burned out, beat up members stepping back up to the plate to carry the load once again. We're not dictators or ruling with an uneven hand, we're just carrying out our fiduciary responsibilities as required.

I also copied the information regarding Florida’s Board Member Certification process, which IMO is not much of one, but may be more than other states have. You either sign a form saying you’ve read & understand the governing documents, etc. etc., or you complete an educational course. So…I wonder how many just sign the form instead of attending a course where they might actually learn something! I am a staunch advocate for reading & understanding the governing documents, but I feel this should be in addition to a curriculum that includes Florida Law. I’m sorry that your board is not better educated regarding their own governing documents. Good luck with that!

We’ve somewhat strayed from the original question, but there doesn’t seem to be enough info from the OP to give an informed answer. Were there extenuating circumstances, is this the first time this has happened or does this happen all the time? When were the motions approved? A lot of people expect immediate action when they don't realize that some things take longer to accomplish that they think...especially if it involves a government entity.

BOARD MEMBER CERTIFICATION
Within 90 days after being elected or appointed to the board, the board member must certify in writing to the secretary that he or she has read and understands the governing documents and will faithfully discharge his or her fiduciary responsibility. In lieu of this certification, a board member may submit certification of satisfactory completion of the education curriculum administered by a division-approved condominium educational provider. Failure to do either of these means that the director is suspended from service on the board until he or she complies. The board may temporarily fill the vacancy during the period of suspension. Any vacancy created based on a director being suspended may be filled according to law until the end of the period of the suspension or the end of the director’s term of office, whichever occurs first. The associations must maintain the certificates for five years after the election.

Richard,

I think your problem is that you think all boards operate as yours do. Well,I've got news for you, they don't. In fact I'm of a strong opinion that most boards act fairly in regard to their members and run a smooth operation governed within the requirements of their gov docs and state law. When I give a general opinion (such as the one I gave earlier that some of you disagree with) it is with the thought in mind that the board is running the assn properly; that they know what powers they have as defined in their gov docs and are familiar and in compliance with the state laws. In other words, they are upholding their fiduciary duty to the assn. If the majority of the members decide to recall them because they did not act on their demands, so be it. But, when the fire dies down don't be surprised to learn that the board was right and the members were wrong! I've seen it happen far too many times and members such as yourself who think the board is always wrong will be there pointing their fingers at this new board blaming them and wanting to recall them.

Snake,

You should not judge all board members and all BODs the same. Some may be corrupt and errant in their duties; however not all fit in that shoe. When I give an opinion it is based upon what the BOD "should" do. How much experience do you have and does it apply to more than one BOD?

When an OP states a problem or concern with a board member or the BOD, we must have as much info as possible before we can offer an opinion. We have often found, after asking questions, that the OP was not giving a true picture of the problem and in many instances the BOD was not in the wrong but rather the OP was not familiar with state laws or even know or understand his gov docs. This is why we ask questions. In this case it is important to know

1) what the motion was -- it could have been for something insignificant or for an important project. What action should be taken would depend upon which.
2) if the board decided not to take the action outside the boardroom -- I'm not saying they should make decisions outside the boardroom, but some boards do. And,if that was the case then the fact that the Pres did not act on a motion made during the meeting is a moot point.

You need to realize that not all states have an open meeting law which requires all board meetings to be in the open except for discussion of certain legal or confidential issues. It just so happens that the OPs state (CA) does have an open meeting law however we all know not all boards comply with it. I didn't say the BOD did meet privately or even say they could or should. I only said that perhaps they did.

The OP did not offer much info and,incidentally, she has never posted again. Of course I know the board can be recalled but that action should never be instigated without knowing for certain (and having proof) that the board has not complied with the gov docs and/or state law. The OP certainly did not give us enough info to determine whether or not the board should be recalled. In fact, if the OP is not a board member, she may not have all the facts or not have all the facts straight. In fact I just thought of another thing, she didn't say the motion was voted on, which is important to know.

Richard,

Yes, I know there are many boards out there who do not operate properly -- they have no regard for the state laws or even the requirements of their gov docs and do a myriad of other things that are considered unethical, etc., etc. But, I don't think this applies to ALL boards as some people do. I know there are many boards who do a very good job; don't break the law, are concerned about what their members want, are careful to keep a balanced budget, etc, etc. I also know attorney's are not always right in the advice they give.

You ask what proof is needed to recall a board. I would say proof that the gov docs and/or state law has been violated. All too often the members hold a recall election w/o proof that the board did anything wrong. Once the new board takes over they soon find out the old board wasn't doing anything wrong and may even start doing the same things that got them recalled! I know this happens for a fact -- I'm not making this up.

When I bought my first HOA property I decided to learn all I could about HOAs; 13 years later, I'm still learning. During these 13 years I've been a board member, attended a course of study on HOAs, gave presentations on HOAs, worked with a group and individually on state legislation, privately helped individuals with HOA problems, and have made a point to know and understand my gov. docs, all the state laws and many of the fed laws. Presently I am a member of my HOA board's Advisory Committee, chairman of the Grant committee and Legislature Liaison. I've been very involved at the state legislature for the past 8-10 years and have a good working relationship with many of the legislators, lobbyists and attorneys who work on HOA legislation.

P.S. I couldn't help but chuckle at your remark that your BOD never read the proposed bylaws change before presenting it to the members for a vote. Couldn't help but think about our Fed. legislators who didn't bother to read the healthcare bill b/4 they voted for it. You've probably heard about AZ's new illegal alien law that's gotten so many people in an uproar. Most of the legislators and other "important" people who have voiced their objections to the law have never read it and have stated so publically.

Richard,

Thank you; I appreciate your kind words.

Sorry that I give you the impression that I like to stick up for board members. I guess I might give that impression when I'm just trying to find out more info. Many of the OP's don't always tell the whole story and some don't tell the real story. By asking questions we sometimes get a whole new prospective on what is really going on. I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and like to hear all sides of an issue b/4 giving my opinion but of course that isn't possible in this type forum.

I've enjoyed working on HOA legislation. Becoming oriented with the legislative process has been a real learning process. I'm hoping to get my open meeting law amendment through this next session. Good luck to you in this new venture of yours. I hope you find it to be as rewarding to you as I have. One little bit of advice is to not be afraid to compromise.