Homeowners in the rears on paying dues

Started by ShirleyH • 21 replies • 2247 views

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ShirleyH (Florida)
Posts: 2

Posted:

Is it legal for an association to print out a list of every homeowner that has not paid their dues for the month? The list also included members who have credit balances. This page is attached to the financial statement. Could someone answer this for me. We are a HOA in the state of florida. Thank you.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

Shirley, I would not do this. You could provide the total accounts receivable but don't ever list a person's name. Plus, the assessment is against the property not a member.

ShirleyH (Florida)
Posts: 2

Posted:

I did not do this, but a member of the association did. ALSO does it make a difference when we own our property.

CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435

Posted:

Shirley I do not believe it is illegal for members of the association to have this information if they request it.
Here are the sections of FL 720 that support this.

Financial records mandated to be kept include........

A current account and a periodic statement of the account for each member, designating the name and current address of each member who is obligated to pay assessments, the due date and amount of each assessment or other charge against the member, the date and amount of each payment on the account, and the balance due.

INSPECTION AND COPYING OF RECORDS.—The official records shall be maintained within the state and must be open to inspection and available for photocopying by members or their authorized agents at reasonable times and places within 10 business days after receipt of a written request for access. This subsection may be complied with by having a copy of the official records available for inspection or copying in the community.
(a)
The failure of an association to provide access to the records within 10 business days after receipt of a written request submitted by certified mail, return receipt requested, creates a rebuttable presumption that the association willfully failed to comply with this subsection.
(b)
A member who is denied access to official records is entitled to the actual damages or minimum damages for the association’s willful failure to comply with this subsection. The minimum damages are to be $50 per calendar day up to 10 days, the calculation to begin on the 11th business day after receipt of the written request.

SnakeP (Washington)
Posts: 41

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CarolF on 09/20/2010 2:03 PM
Shirley I do not believe it is illegal for members of the association to have this information if they request it.
Here are the sections of FL 720 that support this.

Financial records mandated to be kept include........

A current account and a periodic statement of the account for each member, designating the name and current address of each member who is obligated to pay assessments, the due date and amount of each assessment or other charge against the member, the date and amount of each payment on the account, and the balance due.

INSPECTION AND COPYING OF RECORDS.—The official records shall be maintained within the state and must be open to inspection and available for photocopying by members or their authorized agents at reasonable times and places within 10 business days after receipt of a written request for access. This subsection may be complied with by having a copy of the official records available for inspection or copying in the community.
(a)
The failure of an association to provide access to the records within 10 business days after receipt of a written request submitted by certified mail, return receipt requested, creates a rebuttable presumption that the association willfully failed to comply with this subsection.
(b)
A member who is denied access to official records is entitled to the actual damages or minimum damages for the association’s willful failure to comply with this subsection. The minimum damages are to be $50 per calendar day up to 10 days, the calculation to begin on the 11th business day after receipt of the written request.

I read that Florida statute as requiring all documents to be open.

In fact here in Washington state, ALL records of a HoA EXCEPT the unlisted phone numbers are open to ALL members

Our HoA recently tried to block members from seeing this sort of information and the HoA attorney informed the Board they must make ALL records available except unlisted phone numbers of members.

PeterB1 (Florida)
Posts: 257

Posted:

Shirley,

There is a difference between making records available -- and -- publishing a list of owners. If an individual (in Florida) wants specific information, he/she is entitled to see the appropriate records. However, for anyone to compile and publish a list is another matter.

This has been addressed on this site many times. From what I recall, it is NOT illegal - but, it is considered a case of bad judgment and has the potential for a lawsuit.

peter

CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435

Posted:

Shirley - I would like to add that the members are the people who own property. In other words, renters are not members of the association.

BrianB (California)
Posts: 2,820

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PeterB1 on 09/20/2010 2:30 PM
Shirley,

There is a difference between making records available -- and -- publishing a list of owners. If an individual (in Florida) wants specific information, he/she is entitled to see the appropriate records. However, for anyone to compile and publish a list is another matter.

This has been addressed on this site many times. From what I recall, it is NOT illegal - but, it is considered a case of bad judgment and has the potential for a lawsuit.

peter

what peter said, x 10

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Brian,

Ditto for me!

We recently had an angry h/o ask for a list of all the members of the assn (1,702) including addresses and phone numbers. Our attorney advised that the address is public knowledge but the phone numbers are not, whether unlisted or not. The list was sent but only showed the phone numbers of the board members and Architectural Committee members.

BruceC3 (Ohio)
Posts: 17

Posted:

In Ohio, no. It is confidential information for the board only. However, it is the boards responsibility to file liens or take the necessary action to have the persons account brought up to date. Otherwise the whole place suffers.

DonaldN (Connecticut)
Posts: 183

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BruceC3 on 09/20/2010 4:54 PM
In Ohio, no. It is confidential information for the board only. However, it is the boards responsibility to file liens or take the necessary action to have the persons account brought up to date. Otherwise the whole place suffers.

similarly here in Connecticut - the Board gets a list of the delinquencies broken down by timeframe - this is necessary because our collection policy has triggers dependent on length of tardiness .

DonaldN (Connecticut)
Posts: 183

Posted:

also I think it's "in arrears" rather than "in the rears"

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Quote:

Is it legal for an association to print out a list of every homeowner that has not paid their dues for the month?

We print a similar list regularly to show who has not paid, but... we don't put the owner's name. Just the address and number of days past due. ie; 30 days, 60, 90, etc... We don't think its confidential at all. Other homeowners will find out anyway when they see receivables go down the tube. You cant hide it forever.

The other association owners have a right to know if they are paying other people's share of bills. Keep everything open and fair and you will have less problems. Start hiding deadbeats, hiding bills and doing sneaky things and you will have many more problems down the road. Transparency is key.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

In AZ the "personal, health or financial information about an individual member of the assn" is considered confidential info and one of the topics that can be discussed in a closed session.

IMO, instead of showing the members' address and account info, the members' account number should be shown. Showing the address is almost the same as showing the name but it would be very hard to determine who's account number is being shown. I agree the member's are entitled to know about the delinquencies; however, that doesn't mean they are entitled to know what members are delinquent. What purpose does that really serve? Also, I believe the assn could be held accountable if a member's name was shown as being delinquent in error. It is NOT a matter of being transparent or not!!

DonaldN (Connecticut)
Posts: 183

Posted:

I agree with Mary - unit owners don't need to know - they have entrusted the Board to act on their behalf to make sure unit owners are abiding by the collection rules - if the Board does their job in this regard, then there won't be a strain on the financial health of the association.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Quote:

In AZ the "personal, health or financial information about an individual member of the assn" is considered confidential info and one of the topics that can be discussed in a closed session.

I looked it up, AZ law says financial information "may be withheld from disclosure" It does not state it "must" be kept confidential. Stating what address has paid their dues and not paid is a matter of basic HOA record. It does not discuss any financial problems that individual may be having, payment plans and discussing with the HOA. Its a simple paid or not paid.

Quote:

What purpose does that really serve?

It encourages people to pay their HOA bills. That is the purpose. No one wants to see their address printed for all to see while telling their neighbors about the new iphone or lcd tv they just bought. In life/work/home, no one wants to be at the bottom of any list.

I don't care if you agree or not, it works.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Quote:

they have entrusted the Board to act on their behalf to make sure unit owners are abiding by the collection rules - if the Board does their job in this regard, then there won't be a strain on the financial health of the association.

Well, many boards don't do their job, its very common. Especially in this economic climate. Publishing the address of what property has paid or not paid keeps the board transparent. Is the board doing a good job collection? Who would know if you didn't have transparent paperwork.

Its very easy to hide things from people you don't want them to see. Unfortunately members of an association wait till its too late to replace board members of officers who are doing a bad job or in over their head. If people are not paying and we haven't been able to collect, I want members to know NOW, and ask questions NOW, not 2 years from now when the financials are a disaster.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

PS. In most new england towns, every city publishes an annual town report with the costs of everything by line item for people to read. At the back of every book, it lists people who still owe property tax. Every name, address where the tax is owed and how much. This info is not confidential, just like HOA dues.

In fact, I can easily walk into a town hall and look up your tax bill and how much you owe. Its public record and does not release any info about your financial situation.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Steve,

Not every one who is delinquent in paying HOA assessments is a deadbeat. I really don't know what purpose it serves to let everyone in the HOA know the names of delinquent members. You can't shame someone into paying a bill if they don't have the money. Deadbeats know any shame; so what purpose is really being served?

HOAs are private corps not city governments, so equating this to public tax records is like comparing apples to oranges.

I didn't state that AZ law "requires" this info to be withheld only that the law considers it confidential information. What part of confidential do you not understand?

BTW, do you have proof that publishing the names of delinquent members encourages them to pay their bill? If this was true then all your N.E. towns who post the names of delinquent tax bills wouldn't have any delinquencies. Frankly, I think this is an archaic practice.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

MaryA1, I agree to disagree with all your points. (wink)

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Steve,

That's fine by me!! ;-) (that's a wink)

DonaldN (Connecticut)
Posts: 183

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaryA1 on 09/22/2010 7:59 AM
Steve,

That's fine by me!! ;-) (that's a wink)

touche Mary !!!!

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