What the board can discuss with residents

Started by WalterB3 • 41 replies • 3173 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

WalterB3 (New Jersey)
Posts: 15

Posted:

This is my first post. Thank you for being here.

I am a board member (two years) of a condo community of a couple hundred or so units.

I joined this forum because some board members are concerned about me discussing community matters with the residents (who are not on the board). And I want to get a handle on this.

Are there any threads on this topic ? It was difficult to find as I could not find effective keywords to search on.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Walter IMO you can discus anything except legal matters and specific violations as long as you make it clear you are not speaking for the Board, unless they authorize you to speak for them. For instance you shouldn't say homeowner's X Y & Z are delinquent however you can say there are three H/O's delinquent for a total amount of $___. If someone asks about a specific violation such as; "How come the Board isn't doing anything about the fuchsia trim on John Smith's house?" You could reply that the Board is aware of it and it is being handled rather than yeah, we're fining the c**p out of him until he repaints.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

Avoid using people's names.

Instead, use the address.

Minutes might say:
"Discussion on paint violation at 1234 Sunshine Street. Motion and passed to write violation letter to owner."

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

Walter,

Listen well, and then say that the Board is aware of this, the Board is reviewing this or the Board is taking action on this. You DO NOT discuss any Board business individually with home owners unless it has been cleared by the Board. No single Board member has the authority to give any information out to members unless it has already clearded a Board meeting. If it is a complaint, then you need to follow your HOA rules on dealing with complaints be it thru written filing or otherwise. You will only find yourself in a hearsay situation if you do one on one Board business.

SureshD
Posts: 268

Posted:

Review your docs, rules, bylaws and state laws to see what restrictions exist. There are likely some.

In my state statutes and HOA docs I have yet to find anywhere that says BOD members can't talk to their members regarding non-restricted information IF THEY WANT TO.

If an issiue IS NOT covered by a prohibition then there is no problem with discussing any issue IF YOU WANT TO.

Ask the disgruntled BOD members to show you where it is prohibited (in case it is). But because "that's the way it has been done" is not good enough.

Of course you can't force someone to talk but you shouldn't feel like you're doing something wrong if you do so within the rules.

GeraldT4
Posts: 1,022

Posted:

WalterB3 - What information are you discussing with residents? Dialogue is great, obviously these residents trust you to communicate. However, I would encourage the discussion to occur at an open Board meeting and try to increase attendance at those opportunities. Those posting to your subject are correct in not discussing owners names, or legal matters. Address your fellow Board members concerns since that relationship is critical as well as yours with the community.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Walter:

Rather than asking strangers who have no details as to your actions perhaps you should listen to the concerns of your fellow Board members. Perhaps they have cause to be concerned.

My question is why do you feel the need to discuss Board business outside the Board? What does that do for you or what do you think positive comes of it?

I would advise against speaking on some subjects to owners outside the Board as I can see some negative consequences. IMO better to stay away from those areas of discussion and stick to the weather or sports.

DonnaS (Tennessee)
Posts: 5,671

Posted:

I agree with Jon,

There should be no conversations between a Board member and a member about anything pertaining to any Board business outside of a member or Board meeting unless the subject might be directly affecting that member and only after the entire Board has addressed the situation. A Board member is certainly entitled to talk with any member on the street but it should be limited to only general community concerns. Complaints should go to the Board in writting and not to an individual Board member per a street conversation.

WalterB3 (New Jersey)
Posts: 15

Posted:

Thanks for all the varied responses - all helpful to me.

I think DonnaS' approach might be amenable to the other board members. But it seems to me you lose out on benefiting from residents' knowledge. Take a hypothetical example - What if you have a resident who is a painter and has useful comment on a current job. The community loses out if I am restrained from discussing this with him/her. Let's say he doesn't have time to go to a board meeting, but he could spare a few minutes to chat with you.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Per the example you stated:

What if you have a resident who is a painter and has useful comment on a current job. The community loses out if I am restrained from discussing this with him/her. Let's say he doesn't have time to go to a board meeting, but he could spare a few minutes to chat with you.

I think that would fall under a "general community concern" as Donna demonstrated above. This would be a job that was already discussed and approved at a meeting and currently being performed. If a concerned homeowner approached you that it was not being performed properly and VALID REASON why not being performed properly, you in turn could bring the issue up to other board members, so it could be addressed.

Open communication is important for a close community committment, but be careful not to discuss any individual, financial, or legal issues. Those should always be brought up in an open meeting or in writing to the board. Essentially listen, show concern, but depending on their problem either let them know they need to discuss at the board meeting, put their concern in writing to the board, or if very minor you could bring the problem to the board attention (minor General Community concern only).

Be especially carefull not to discuss a problem one homeowner is having with another homeowner ... this can cause major trouble (someone could claim you are taking sides on the issue). Let them know this issue needs to go before the board and you cannot discuss personal issues with individual homeowners as you must be impartial.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Outside of issues discussed in Executive Session, which would be privileged and confidential, what atate law or staute prohibits a Board Member speaking to a fellow Member/neighbor about the affairs of THEIR community?

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

common sense

SureshD
Posts: 268

Posted:

That was my point too Richard.

Such attitudes of "information exclusivity" (beyond what the law(s) require) contribute to a sense of arrogance.

My point to the OP is that regardless of how some people [here and elsewhere] feel THEY need to act, speaking to members about community issues is OK and they should not be intimidated by those who wish to exclude others.

As mentioned NO ONE has provided any examples of laws or similar preventing this.
(beside the exec. sessions, litigation, etc.)

But if a member approaches a BOD member and asks: "How come we don't have the new pool chairs we were promised yet?". Why not answer it?

Of course some communities may have protocol for registering complaints, etc. (which was not mentioned by the OP) so then just tell them HOW to do it properly.

So often we hear about HO apathy and members not geting involved. Such communication is getting involved and should not be limited to just a BOD meeting. Not everyone may be ambulatory or able to attend for any number of reasons.

IN FACT some states (like FLa.) do not GUARANTEE membership the RIGHT TO SPEAK at a BOD meeting unless an item is placed on the agenda by membership petition.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Suresh,

If a board member looks for a state law to guide him in every little action he takes, he'll be spending all his time "looking"!. As Jon said, common sense dictates.

Although I tend to agree with you, I also believe a board member should be careful about what he says when speaking to a member outside a board meeting. He shouldn't bad mouth the board's actions, opine on how the board may act on a certain issue, discuss any confidential info -- just to name a few things. Just because there isn't a state law addressing what he can or cannot say to a member outside a board meeting, doesn't mean he should just "tell all!".

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

None of the members of the Board are spokesman for the Board. But many unit owners will assume one member might speak for the Board when in a one on one discussion. Nor do I wish to have unit owners approaching me for one on one exchanges about their concerns or opinions. We have a process for that and pay an MC to handle such conversations. As Board President I would be concerned something might be said that should not be discussed or perhaps something said might be misinterpreted by the unit owner. Some people hear what they wish to hear not what was said.

And the lack of any state, federal or universal law that prohibits this sort of action does not then make it good practice.

Some things are just not covered under law or regulations. Even in the state of Florida.

Many discussions and exchanges among Board members, the MC or other parties should not be discussed or detailed to unit owners. IMO

As a Board member I don't want to be faced with the situation where a unit owner approaches the Board and say "but David told me _______", this is something that should not occur. As a discussion is repeated the content and details can be changed or become unclear and as a Board member IMO you should NOT contribute to this potential problem.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

WalterB3 (New Jersey)
Posts: 15

Posted:

Thanks for the additional responses - all interesting and helpful.

I do have thoughts on these, but I prefer to listen and learn before making up my own mind.

How about this hypothetical #2. I want to ask the painter his thoughts on a painting contract we have BEFORE it has been voted on ? (Assume he is not bidding). Can we not benefit from his knowledge because this is a "board matter" ? (Again assume he is not interested in attending a board meeting). What are the problems we risk and can't they be easily avoided so we can take advantage of this free advice ?

I am trying to find the boundary here - where to draw that line not to cross.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Walter,

I don't know what the open meeting laws are in NJ, or even if there are any. However, I would see nothing wrong with you meeting with the painter, one on one, and aking these questions then bringing the info back to the board. When open meeting laws apply, a meeting is generally meant to be a gathering of a quorum of the board. If he would like to come to a board meeting, that would also be fine, but, at least in AZ, it would have to be an open board meeting.

The topic of this thread was board members speaking to HOA members outside of a board meeting.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Walter:

Rather than guessing on what could be or might happen lets jump to the concerns your fellow Board members have expressed to you about discussing Baord matters with members of the HOA outside the Board. What discussions are they concerned about? How do you know their concerns? What topics are they addressing?

For some reason they have expressed concerns to you I owuld concentrate on those real matters rather than work through a lsit of situations that may occur and how you would act in each.

Sounds to me like you are trying to find situations that would allow you to discuss Board matters without then having issues with the other members of the Board. IF you continue how do you think that might affect your relationship with your fellow Board members and in the end is that worth it?

Good luck.

WalterB3 (New Jersey)
Posts: 15

Posted:

Thanks Mary, Jon.

I would rather not get into the details, but at least one other board members would be happy if I refrained from introducing myself as a board member and talking to residents completely. I don't want to do that and I want to announce my own guidelines. That is why I posted here.

I don't talk with the residents all that much. Mainly because I don't get out on the street that much. But maybe five times in the last year, I have taken a walk to see some issue first hand. For example someone submits an exterior change request. While there, if I see a resident who looks to be not in any particular hurry, I might introduce myself as a board member and ask if he/she has any problems or coments about the community. I figure that this is their community as much as it is mine, and if I am "serving" them, I should take a pulse of the community so to speak. What is their biggest concern (commonly the aount of association dues). What are they happy about. Commonly they will have a particular gripe they want to air out. (I know enough to just listen and understand, and then explain that I am only one board member and he/she needs to direct this to the property manager.)

Generally I find it interesting and pleasant to meet the residents and learn about small details of that I wouldn't even know to ask about. Enjoying the conversation may not be a good reason to speak to residents to the rest of the board, but I do learn things that I think help me understand the issues. Generally I try to keep the information flow coming to me vs the other direction. Because I know the board does not want me revealing board matters. Also I prefer not to let on my own view of things, because I don't want to bias what they feel free to say to me. reall

I also ask for opinions on things like what does he/she think of the recent paint job ? This gets a little iffy. Am I stirring up dissatisfaction in the community ? Is my asking implying something is wrong ? But I think it is not that hard to take a neutral tone and ask in a "just asking" manner.

Okay it gets really tricky here. I have this idea that the community should be invited to participate more in association matters. We have no committtees and I don't think the other board members are keen on having any. (I think they feel that it would divert energy and time to coordinate committees and the they don't need committee input - the property manager, legal counsel and vendors provide sufficient input). I have been asking residents that if we had committees, would they be interested in participating. (leading to this post).

So I may be in a minority opinion. Here' one question: Is there no way to air minority views to residents ? Maybe that minority view could later become a majority view over time. Is there no way to lay tentative ground work just in case just because I am on the board and this would constitute misrereseting the board ? Or fomenting board discord and community unrest ?

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Walter:

So for some reason you'd rather not go into details. Funny, some of us would need details to form an opinion on your situation. I would guess the matter you have sought opinions about has nothing to do with advice from a painter.

For some reason at least one member of your Board would prefer you not to discuss issues with unit owners outside the Board. You seem to think that opinion doesn't apply to you. Anbd you are searching for some justification to green light your actions.

And as you detailed your attempts to "survey" the unit owners as to their willingness to participate if committes were formed suggests to me that you have oversteped your role as a Board member. You understand or assume the Board does not want to form committes but you have taken it upon yourself to sort of test the water any way.

To be frank, I would also suggest you discontinue your discussions outside the Board. If the Board,as a group does not wish to examine committes or other areas than it is not up to you to set a alternate plan just in case you views someday become popular. I would think you run the risk of causing bad feelings with other members of the Board by taking action they seem to be against and promoting "your" agenda rather than that of the entire Board membership.

IF you really wanted to change things IMO the correct way would be to change the feeling on the Board first and then go to the property owners NOT push your view of what's right and proper to the property owners while serving on the Board and ignoring the wishes of your fellow Board members.

IMO you have it backwards.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

If I understand this is the main concern you have been hinting:

Okay it gets really tricky here. I have this idea that the community should be invited to participate more in association matters. We have no committees and I don't think the other board members are keen on having any. (I think they feel that it would divert energy and time to coordinate committees and they don't need committee input - the property manager, legal counsel and vendors provide sufficient input). I have been asking residents that if we had committees, would they be interested in participating. (leading to this post).

If I am reading between the lines correctly here:

On one side you have the board who enjoys life as it currently runs with a property manager, legal counsel, and possibly vendors performing maintenance, landscaping, etc. and no one has to work at anything else ... life is good for the most part.

On the other side you would like to see more community input or participation. Which is not bad as the more community participation you have, then you will have more individuals willing to help out as board directors or officers down the road as needed.

I actually would like to commend you on the thought of having committees. Having some committees would encourage more community participation and also afford an opportunity to teach other homeowners how your HOA operates. This would give those individuals who are concerned or interested in your community an opportunity to learn and promote having qualified individuals in the future who would be willing to serve as directors or officers.

WalterB3 (New Jersey)
Posts: 15

Posted:

Jon,
Thanks for responding. Not what I wanted to hear. But I hear you.
Janet,
Yes, that is right. We could do better. Thank you for clarifying.

And now I am faced with a board that frowns on talking to
residents. And rather that cease, I would like to develop
guidelines for myself (on talking to residents) and present
them to the board (that's my thought anyway).

And now I am making the observation that if you have a minority
view point (eg. use of committees), it seems problematic
to further that "agenda" (as Jon puts it). I guess it is a matter of balance - board unity vs. establishing own voice on the board.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Walter,

I would suggest that while on a morning walk, if you encounter a member of the HOA it's not necessary to introduce yourself as a board member. I doubt the board would be concerned about you talking to your fellow members as just another member of the HOA. The problem arises when you speak to other members as a board member and proceed to talk about assn business. Asking members what their thoughts are about committees, in a sense, is undermining the adopted policy of a majority of the board (i.e. not to have committees). IMO, a board member should never publically voice their displeasure about a board policy or action even if he/she voted against it. It's important for the BOD to show unity. If the board wants to entertain the idea of appointing committees and would like to know what the members think of it, a survey would be the proper way to find out. Why not suggest writing up a survey to obtain the pulse of the community?

Bottom line: there are better ways to try to convince the board to amend certain practices/policies other than you discussing these issues with members you might meet on the street then relaying to the board how the members feel. I'm sure the board is concerned that you're out there badmouthing them and that is why they have advised you to stop this practice. If you don't, I'm afraid it's going to be an uphill battle to get the board to agree with you about anything as you will be viewed as the board PITA and troublemaker.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Walter:

One of the most important components of serving on a Board IMO is the human element. The relationship between all the parties involved along with the MC, vendors, contractors, and the like. ONCE THAT RELATIONSHIP IS ALTERED OR DAMAGED IMO IT IS NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO REPAIR. My saying "if one looks good we all look good." "And of we all work to do our job in a positive way everyone benefits."

IMO it is important if not essential for your fellow Board memebers to feel you are part of a team that is willing to work WITH them not against them. And in life apperances are everything.

Some time ago one poster wrote how she had battled with her Board over I beleive an assessment. She had refused to pay her share and told the Board she was planning to contact the other owners to fight their decision to set an assessment. She had been a member of a committee serving the community and was removed by the Board as a result of her actions against their decisions. What was surprising was how she was tkane back by their actions against her. She didin't connect her actions to theirs.

In physics for each action their is an opposite reaction. Or something like that.

In general in your opinion how has your Board performed? Do you think your property is managed in an acceptable manner?

If so, than what would you hope to gain by pushing an agenda counter to the wishes of at least some other Board members?

One lesson I have learned after serving on my Board for more that 24 years just because YOU believe something is important doesn't result in the other unit owners to agree. Are there any unit owners knocking on the door demanding committees be formed? Is there general satisfaction with the state of your property other than your belief there is a lack of more people being involved?

So lets just say you contntiue to push for committees and in the end no one is interested in joining or forming any. (including your Board) Other than alienating your fellow Board members what have you accomplished?

We have 9 Board members and that would be maybe 4 more than I would like. When you involve more people IMO the process can get slowed down with input and opinions from more parties than IMO necessary.

Many people think everyone can and should be heard on each subject and regarding every decision. I do not share that opinion. I have members of my Board who are not informed enough to make wise decisions due to lack of interest or simply they don't get it. Now throw in several hundred more thoughts, wishes, dreams, and desires and you would have grid lock.

As Mary has suggested I would carefully consider my actions as it would seem to me you have poured gasoline on the bridge between you and at least some of the other members of the Board. Once that flame is ignited it will be difficult to rebuild that bridge or any relationship with those memebrs of the Board if at all possible. I would way the pros vs. the cons and determine if that risk is worth what you view as a reward.

Good luck and I hope your neck of the woods was not hard hit by our passing hurricane or storm.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Walter

I waited until the "old-timers" put their two cents in. IMO, what you are trying to accomplish is admirable and should be done by more Boards out there. If a few Board Members have a prolem;em with that, so be it. REMEMBER, if you were elected by the Members of the community, your responsibility and accountability lies with them.

Just like anything you do in life, if you choose to bad mouth someone, it tends to end up biting you in the butt at some point in time. As I mentioned before, as long as you don't discuss confidential and privileged information with your neighbor, you have NO problem. Soliciting information from homeowners is actually encouraged by Community Associations Institute. It appears everyone here has taken the stand that the only information you would discuss with residents is confidential and privilege. Do people really think that the position of a Board Member is so special and lofty that it would allow other Board Members to bully other Board Members in turning a deaf ear to residents/homwowners?

At the end of the day, the only people that matter are the ones that put you there in the first place. You made a commitment to them. I applaud you for that.

WalterB3 (New Jersey)
Posts: 15

Posted:

Thanks for those responses, Mary, Jon, and Richard.

Quote:

Posted By JonD1 on 09/05/2010 7:58 AM
Walter:

So lets just say you contntiue to push for committees and in the end no one is interested in joining or forming any. (including your Board) Other than alienating your fellow Board members what have you accomplished?

That could well happen. But no one knows unless someone tries. You and Mary make a good point that it is best to try to work out the committees issue *with* the board (eg. ask for survey). But if in the end, we can't agree, I am thinking I need to weigh board unity against what I think is best for the community . Richard makes a good point, that ultimately I answer to the voting residents.

I am thinking that there are ways to probe for residents' interest in serving on committees without making the board look bad if I just keep that mindset. Maybe I can just say the that the board has higher priorities right now, but someday we may be able to start one as a test case (stretch the truth a little bit). And I can follow the advice offered here - for example, make it clear to residents that I don't speak for the board.

It is not perfect and the others may not be okay with this, but if I am upfront about this, maybe it would minimize the damage to board unity.

I have to admit I have made at least a couple of the mistakes over the last couple years that you all have warned against on this thread. And I hear about it from the others. But I think I have been reasonable with them.

JonD1
Posts: 2,350

Posted:

Walter:

Serving on any Board is a learning expierence. You learn the nuts and bolts of managing the property along with the human factor of dealing with the good and bad of the property owners, your fellow Board members, the MC and outside contractors.

You get to see the entire picture of what is required IF you take your position seriously. It can be quite a demanding job IF done right.

My bottom line on any issue has been simply to ask one question. "What is best for the property?" If you take the time to find that answer you should in most cases do just fine.

Good luck to you Walter and keep us updated on how things are going with you and your property.

WalterB3 (New Jersey)
Posts: 15

Posted:

Jon,
Thanks for your perspective. It helps me see where my board is coming from.

All,
I took a shot at creating guidelines for talking to residents based on feedback here, and I got stuck.

It seems that some recommend:
1. Don't identify yourself as a board member. Remain an annoymous board member outside open meetings.
2. Resident input should be gotten through open meetings. And possibly through written surveys.

Is this viable ? Why do some feel this way, but others not ? Is this like the divide between those wired to be conservative and those wired to be liberal ?

I am guessing CAI would promote board members freely engaging residents if they so chose to get the benefits of open communication ? Am I wrong ? Is CAI being naive ? Does its approach only work if the circumstances of the community are right ?

We are a condo community of a few hundred. My board is for the restrictive approach. And may even frown on surveys. The property manager also prefers this approach. He feels that introducing yourself as a board member and directing complaints to him is just a bad idea. He has work to do and is not looking for more complaints to take him away from it. He gets plenty of input talking to residents. But that does not necessarily make its way to the board. Why does CAI not apply here ?

SureshD
Posts: 268

Posted:

If they elected you or go to a meeting then they'll know you are a BOD member.

WalterB3 (New Jersey)
Posts: 15

Posted:

Suresh,
We only get a couple of residents at our open meetings. The point is some people (including my those on my board) feel you should not have contact with residents outside open meetings (introducing yourself as a board member).
Thanks

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Walter,

Open communication does not necessarily mean going out into the community, introducing yourself as a board member and asking questions. Open communication generally means the board does not meet in secret but rather has open board meetings during which time they are not opposed to asnwering questions of the members present. Also publishing a newsletter informing the members of what is going on in the community is a means of open communication.

With regard to speaking to members you happen to meet on the street. When I suggested that you don't need to introduce yourself as a board member I didn't mean to imply that you should never let anyone know that you serve on the board. What I meant is that you don't have to introduce youself as such; however,if, in the course of your conversation, the "BOD" happens to come up there is no reason why you can't say that you happen to be a member of the board. But, by introducing yourself as a board member right off the bat, IMO, just opens up the door to discussing the HOA and any issues that may be going on, controversial or otherwise. It's like you're saying, "Hey, I'm a board member, let's talk about the HOA."

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Walter

I have attached a sample ethics policy from a law firm in California. I believe some of your concerns would be answered there. As suggested, I wouldn't just up to someone and say "Hey, I'm a board member, let's talk about the HOA," but don't shy away from your position. I think problems within an HOA can be "cut off at the pass," with simple communication, not burying yourself in a hole. If you make a point to adhere to an ethnics policy, I think you'll do just find.

📎 Attachments (1):

📄191034057771.pdf(42 KB)

WalterB3 (New Jersey)
Posts: 15

Posted:

Thank, Mary.
Thanks, Richard. I read the ethics doc. Sounds like it is for a corporate board, wonder if it applies to condos. At any rate, it was informative and interesting.

I hate to drag out this issue, but it really is point of contention impeding our "board unity" and effectiveness.

Actually I now feel rather resigned to fall in line with the majority opinion on this issue. (Past transgressions have weakened my position.)

But since I already started this topic, I want to state my case here for discussion.

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 09/10/2010 10:34 AM
Walter

... As suggested, I wouldn't just up to someone and say "Hey, I'm a board member, let's talk about the HOA,"...

Richard, Mary, Jon,

My community has hundreds of units and these are smaller units, so it is a fairly transient community. I might get to know some neighbors in my immediate street, but noone on any other street. If I was visiting a unit with an exterior change issue on another street, I would have little excuse or reason to start up a chat with people in that area. If I did, they would be wondering who I was and why I would intiate a conversation with them - I have no reason other than being a board member interested in residents input. Yet these other streets are not all the same and to some extent have goings on specific to their own street, so to me it is useful to get a feel for what all happens in that particular street. For example, do they feels their street is neglected because of its location, do they have particular problems such as loitering teens because they back up to woods.

I am not asking to do this everyday. I am not looking to create trouble. Just here and there once in a long while is enough - just to get out of the board room and see what is going on.

How can I gauge how effectivess the property manager is at addressing residents' issues. Yes, the propery manager does get complaints from residents which he passes on to the board. But for every resident who complains, there must be many who are perfectly satisfied. I don't hear from those residents. Also the property manager has a bias to under-report problems so as to minimize the board interference with doing his job as he sees fit.

True, we have open meetings. But the fact is we only get a couple residents at our open meetings. A few more at the annual budget meeting. A tiny fraction of the community.

True, we could use surveys. But again response will be limited. And it can't beat face-to-face communication.

Also, what if I don't agree with the policies of the current board and want to encourage other residents run for the board and replace them. And suppose the current board does not want to use committees, so there that limits the number of people who are potential election nominees. And suppose the board agrees that they do not want anyone asking residents if they are interested in committees. So now I am hamstrung, because if I talk to residents outside the few neighbor I know about getting involved in the community, then I am "going against board decisions".

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Walter

The document I posted is from a well-respected HOA attorney in California.

I believe you have a handle on what you would like to discuss with your neighbors. Go with your gut. I believe you will respond in the right way. You believe what you are trying to accomplish is for the benefit of the whole community. You should encourage individuals to run for the Board or get involved with a community.

Good luck to you!!!

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Also, what if I don't agree with the policies of the current board and want to encourage other residents run for the board and replace them.

Then you as a homeowner have every right to do so; you should not be going up to people: "Hi, I'm Walter and I'm on the Board, the rest of the Board are incompetent boobs who I don't agree with. Please run for the Board and replace them." You are not "taking the pulse of the community"; you are promoting your own agenda and trying to cloak it in something else. I have no problem with an agenda, I had an agenda of what I wanted to accomplish when I ran for the Board. But be honest about it and don't use your position on the Board to try and undermine the other members to accomplish it.

It would be different matter if the other Board members were doing something illegal or unethical, then you do whatever you need to rectify the situation. In this case however, you want the Board to do something, have committees, which the majority of Board members do not feel the need to have. So instead of trying to change their minds, you are simply rabble rousing in an attempt to prove yourself right. If you have so poor a turnout for meetings just where do you expect the committee members to come from??? Yes people will tell you it sounds like a great idea but when it comes time for them to roll up their sleeves and actually participate, you'll be lucky to get one or two and even luckier if they come back for the second or third committee meeting.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

CaroleJ (Georgia)
Posts: 70

Posted:

With the exception of using names that are involved in legal matters, say what you want, Walter.

If the Board was supposed to speak with one voice, only one person would need to be on the Board. And if the owners don't know how each Director votes, how are they supposed to know who to keep in or vote out at the General meetings? If a Board member objects to making the votes known to owners, I'd have to ask why that person wants it kept a secret and would he/she have voted differently if it was known in advance that the results would be made public.

Keep on talkin'.

WalterB3 (New Jersey)
Posts: 15

Posted:

Thanks, all.

Richard's post got me searching the forum for "Code of Ethics" and I found threads related to my questions. Right now I am looking with great interest at the link in this 2007 posting from DonN on the subject: "code of ethics". The link reference covers fiduciary duty in depth and DonN believes it supports his case concerning balancing board unity vs voicing healthy dissent:

Quote:

Posted By DonN on 01/22/2007 5:45 PM - Subject: code of ethics
Power is Derived from the Members — I will serve at the pleasure of the members. All political power is inherent in the members, and owners associations derive their just powers from the consent of the governed, and are established to protect and maintain individual rights. (last sentence edited from the Arizona Constitution)

I have never seen a better description of what support means in a board "Support – I will abide by decisions of the majority of the Directors even though I may disagree, but I reserve the right to express my own views to owners upon non-confidential issues." Too often, boards get overwhelmed by a mandate to "work as a team", which is wrong. It chills disagreement on issues which is so important in a well functioning board. If all the members agree, then only one board member is needed. Every board should have a discussion about this particular subject, and understand the very strong meaning in the quotation above.

The companion part is understanding fiduciary duty, An excellent paper on "Legal Duties of a Nonprofit's Board of Directors" can be downloaded at
. In case you have difficulty accessing this site, the paper is copied in my post on "Fiduciary Duties" at
.

WalterB3 (New Jersey)
Posts: 15

Posted:

The companion part is understanding fiduciary duty, An excellent paper on "Legal Duties of a Nonprofit's Board of Directors" can be downloaded at
http://www.clronline.org/resources/legal-lines/basics/LegalDuties.pdf/view;. In case you have difficulty accessing this site, the paper is copied in my post on "Fiduciary Duties" at
http://swagman.typepad.com/poa_governance/2005/11/fiduciary_duty.html

WalterB3 (New Jersey)
Posts: 15

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DonN on 01/22/2007 5:45 PM - Subject: code of ethics

The companion part is understanding fiduciary duty, An excellent paper on "Legal Duties of a Nonprofit's Board of Directors" can be downloaded at
http://www.clronline.org/resources/legal-lines/basics/LegalDuties.pdf/view. In case you have difficulty accessing this site, the paper is copied in my post on "Fiduciary Duties" at
http://swagman.typepad.com/poa_governance/2005/11/fiduciary_duty.html

WalterB3 (New Jersey)
Posts: 15

Posted:

Sorry for the multiple posts, I had technical difficulties.

Looking further into DonN's post, I now see that his comment about the definition of "support" refers to the sixth item in a code of ethics provided by the Canadian Condominium Institute at:

http://www.ccitoronto.org/Resources/PDF/CCI-N-CodeofEthics.pdf

Also as far as I can tell, his links to the in depth analysis of "fiduciary duty" does not really directly address the issue of "support" (for the board). (I could be wrong).

WalterB3 (New Jersey)
Posts: 15

Posted:

This code of ethics from

http://www.caionline.org/info/help/associations/Documents/boardmemberethics.pdf

is interesting because its last bullet for what board member should NOT do is:

"Reveal to any owner, resident or other third party the discussions, decisions
and comments made at any meeting of the board properly closed
or held in executive session."

I thought about the likely rationale for both. Not sure if these work together or not.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043

Posted:

Walter:

Regarding Don N's statement on "support": "I have never seen a better description of what support means in a board "Support – I will abide by decisions of the majority of the Directors even though I may disagree, but I reserve the right to express my own views to owners upon non-confidential issues." Too often, boards get overwhelmed by a mandate to "work as a team", which is wrong. It chills disagreement on issues which is so important in a well functioning board. If all the members agree, then only one board member is needed. Every board should have a discussion about this particular subject, and understand the very strong meaning in the quotation above."

IMO, I agree that being a "yes man" is not being a productive board member. On the other hand, a board member should never be afraid to voice his opinion even if it differs from the opinion of all the other board members. But this should be done at the board meeting when the issue is being debated by the board. Once a decision has been made, IMO, any board member who voted against the decision should never badmouth the board for making the wrong decision or take it upon themselves to question the HOA members about whether or not they feel the board made a wrong decision. This only serves to undermine the board's actions and I wouldn't blame them for getting angry with any board member who would do this. Once the decision has been made, all board members need to show unity for their decision.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here