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JannaD
(Florida)
Posts:5
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| 03/14/2010 11:19 AM |
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| Can an activities committee in an HOA feel free to hold a weekly Bingo game in the HOA clubhouse and invite people from outside the community to come to the Bingo games without being registered or doing any paperwork for the state of Florida if they are handing all of the money back out in the games. (Tickets are $10 a pack, 10 games are played per night, you can buy as many packs as you want) Are HOAs exempt from these Florida Laws on Bingo? Can they legally have 50/50 raffles without being a charity? In general what rules apply in what HOA Activity committees can do to raise funds in their community? Does being a gated community have any bearing on any of this? Florida Sunshine Laws do they apply in an HOA? |
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TimB4
(Virginia)
Posts:530
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| 03/14/2010 11:41 AM |
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Janna,
1. Are HOAs exempt from these Florida Laws on Bingo?
Not unless the law says they are. I haven't read the FL gambling laws so I can not give you a better answer.
2. Can they legally have 50/50 raffles without being a charity?
Goes back to the specifics of FL gambling laws. Do you have a link for that?
3. In general what rules apply in what HOA Activity committees can do to raise funds in their community?
They must follow the rules outlined by the Association. I would expect that they could use the clubhouse and even open up activities for non-members. It would depend on any restrictions (or the lack thereof) within your Associations resolution that created the committee.
Additionally, any activity they organize must adhere to any State or Federal Laws. Example, if your city has laws against discharging weapons within city limits, the committee may not hold a shooting contest on the property if it's within city limits, even if the Board of Directors authorizes it.
4. Does being a gated community have any bearing on any of this?
Not that I could think of. As answered above, even things you do on your own private property must comply with the law.
5. Florida Sunshine Laws do they apply in an HOA?
Sorry, I don't know these laws either. In general, unless the law excludes you, you must follow it. Most laws say who they apply to. If they don't you should expect that they apply to all.
Hope this helps,
Tim |
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GlenL
(Ohio)
Posts:2944
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| 03/14/2010 4:47 PM |
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| If in doubt ask the police and no the sunshine law doesn’t apply to HOA’s only governmental meetings; however FL has a very strict open meeting law covering HOA’s. |
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Associations are full of willing homeowners, some willing to volunteer and the rest willing to criticize. Author unknown but very perceptive. |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:4650
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| 03/14/2010 5:40 PM |
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Janna,
You need to go to Florida Gameing Laws. I read for a long time and it is very complicated. I know that my 55+ HOA in South Florida has monthly Bingo night so it is doable but after reading the loads of laws concerning a HOA and Bingo, it best you look it up or consult your HOA lawyer or CPA.
Sunshine Laws are not applicable here and HOAs have their own Statutes for open meeting requirements. Gated does not come into play and raising outside money is a slippery slope as well. |
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JohnM3
(Florida)
Posts:288
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| 03/16/2010 8:59 AM |
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| Dear Former Florida Resident Donna: A recent Fl SC ruling states the Fl Sunshine law does apply to HOAs an d Condo Boards |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:4650
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| 03/16/2010 9:06 AM |
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Dear John in Florida,
Please either show it to me or tell me where to find it.
Thank you |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:4650
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| 03/16/2010 9:14 AM |
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Government-in-the-Sunshine Manual
Chapter updated: 03/11/2009
What agencies are covered by the Sunshine Law
c. Homeowners' associations
The Sunshine Law does not generally apply to meetings of a homeowners' association board of directors. Inf. Op. to Fasano, June 7, 1996. Other statutes govern access to records and meetings of these associations. See, e.g., s. 720.303(2), F.S. (homeowners' association board of directors and any committee making a final decision regarding the expenditure of association funds or any body having the authority to approve architectural plans involving a specific piece of property owned by a community resident); s. 718.112(2)(c), F.S. (condominium board of administration); s. 719.106(1)(c), F.S. (cooperative board of administration); and s. 723.078(2)(c), F.S. (mobile home park homeowners' association board of directors). Cf. AGO 99-53 (an architectural review committee of a homeowners' association is subject to the Sunshine Law where that committee, pursuant to county ordinance, must review and approve applications for county building permits).
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JohnM3
(Florida)
Posts:288
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| 03/16/2010 9:44 AM |
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| Fl Supreme court hearing in Lennar vs Hampshire Homes et all. We were told by the court to produce all copies of all minutes when 2 or more BOD members were in a discussion on anything to do with a pending law suit. The case was thrown out not over the trial but the demand of the lawyers representing lennar Homes Inc to see notes of a legal type that may have effected the law suit concerning 85 15 cu yard dump trucks of tires removed from a Home Owners Association development.......we were told categorically that the Sunshine law does affect Home Owners Associations meetings. In the state of Florida........... We were told that when 2 or more of us meet in person or via computer that records must be kept an must be printed as part of the monthly meeting notes while the law suit was in operation. Which we did an turned into the court upon settlement of the law suit................. |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:4650
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| 03/16/2010 10:08 AM |
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John,
Sorry but we left Janna and her Bingo question in the dust but I need to respond to you. Who told you that ".......we were told categorically that the Sunshine law does affect Home Owners Associations meetings. " That is catagorically inaccurate.
I just read some of your case--In Miramar, correct? I had a year 2000 Lennar home in Martin County and that may have been the last time that they built quality homes on decent land. Greed to make the shareholders happy is my guess. Yours is truely a sad case of customer dissatisfaction and company doing illegal business. Sorry to hear about that.
You said "We were told that when 2 or more of us meet in person or via computer that records must be kept an must be printed as part of the monthly meeting notes while the law suit was in operation. Which we did an turned into the court upon settlement of the law suit."................
THIS IS ALL ACCURATE BUT IT IS NOT!!!!under the Sunshine Law requirements. It is under S.S 720.
Now, Lennars part might have been under Sunshine Laws because this was State and County permitting , restrictions and code meetings---which is Sunshine Law business. But I do not see where your HOA could have been involved during Lennars getting the project approved.
John, There is a distinction between the company---Lennar and your HOA--- Hampshire Homes Meetings during the lawsuit may possibly be under the S.L but that I do not know. |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:6885
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| 03/16/2010 10:16 AM |
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Donna,
Sorry to jump in on this but I do know that "sunshine" laws only apply to public bodies. If these corps were meeting with the City Council or Planning & Zoning in a public meeting then the sunshine laws would apply. But any other meetings would not be subject to the sunshine law. If I recall correctly you've stated many times that HOAs do have an open meeting law separate from the "sunshine" laws. |
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JohnM3
(Florida)
Posts:288
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| 03/16/2010 10:19 AM |
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| I respect you an your knowledge but we paid quite dearly to the tune of 20+ million dollars an we have run this hoa that way an will continue to do . I prefer to deal inside the written law an have learned that 22 lawyers can have 22 different opinions but ours was tried in court an that in my mind is the best place. I am not a lawyer an know not what your profession is an it is none of my business however I prefer to educate my peers on things I have lived through rather than theory. IMHO Have a great day..............Floridas laws are particular to Florida an change each an every year..... |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:4650
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| 03/16/2010 10:25 AM |
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Mary,
You are correct and from my post above on Sunshine Laws and HOA's, it says "Generally". Johns case is huge and like he said--22 lawyers with 22 different opinions. Once these meetings leave the safety of a HOA meeting, then the Sunshine law is the governing law but prior to that, the Statutes 720 prevail. |
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