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RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Five member Board, to reach Qurom over fifty% attending. Is quorum then 3 out of five or 3/5ths or both.

1 member resigns, Board elects not to select a new member and never asked for volunteers from the qualified owners. In fact the decision not to fill the position was discussed and voted on by the Board.

#1 question, does that vacancy have to be offered to the membership?

#2 Does the board have the authority to not fill the vacancy ?,

#3 With a five member board a quorum is 3/5 of the Board. One drops off and is not, filled then a quorum becomes 3 out of four or 75 %. Is there authority for this to happen or does the over fifty% make both the 3/5ths and the 75% equal.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Addition:

The By-laws state;
Vacancies:Vacancies on the board caused by any other reason than the removal of a Direrctor by the Members of the Council(Recall), shall be filled by vote of the majority of the remaining members, even though they may constitute less than a quroum, and each person so elected shall be an administrator until a successor is elected at the next annual meeting of the council. Vacancies caused by removal shall be filled by vote of the council at the same meeting at which and administrator is removed.
********************************
Do you think this means that if the Board cannot reach majority vote on a candidate then there does not have to be an appointment? Not likely, because this would indicate a vote was taken by the Board, yet no vote or any mention of the Boards decision was recorded in the minutes.

Is notice required for this type of Board decision?
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 03/10/2010 6:48 PM
Addition:

The By-laws state;
Vacancies:Vacancies on the board caused by any other reason than the removal of a Direrctor by the Members of the Council(Recall), shall be filled by vote of the majority of the remaining members, even though they may constitute less than a quroum, and each person so elected shall be an administrator until a successor is elected at the next annual meeting of the council. Vacancies caused by removal shall be filled by vote of the council at the same meeting at which and administrator is removed.
********************************
Do you think this means that if the Board cannot reach majority vote on a candidate then there does not have to be an appointment? Not likely, because this would indicate a vote was taken by the Board, yet no vote or any mention of the Boards decision was recorded in the minutes.

Is notice required for this type of Board decision?

It appears that the referenced Bylaw is from a local city government rather than an HOA.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertR1 on 03/10/2010 6:29 PM
Five member Board, to reach Qurom over fifty% attending. Is quorum then 3 out of five or 3/5ths or both.

1 member resigns, Board elects not to select a new member and never asked for volunteers from the qualified owners. In fact the decision not to fill the position was discussed and voted on by the Board.

#1 question, does that vacancy have to be offered to the membership?

#2 Does the board have the authority to not fill the vacancy ?,

#3 With a five member board a quorum is 3/5 of the Board. One drops off and is not, filled then a quorum becomes 3 out of four or 75 %. Is there authority for this to happen or does the over fifty% make both the 3/5ths and the 75% equal.

Robert

IMO

#1, The vacancy should be offered to the membership and not just appointed. The reason being, too many boards make the appointment last for the duration of the other person's term instead of until the next election.

#2, Our Bylaws state that the Board may fill a vacancy by a majority vote of the remaining members. It says may, not shall, which means they could ask the membership to step up. If the Bylaws state shall, that should mean they have no choice but to fill the vacancy.

#3, The majority would be 3, UNLESS you can get the arm or leg of one of the remaining members, then you would have a majority of body parts with 2 plus.

Honestly, how many boards are going to follow what the governing docs state. Most are going to do whatever they want, because quite frankly, there is not state agency that will watch the backs of the membership.
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
To all,
I assure you this by-law is copied from my condo by-laws.

Where are you coming from Richard? Do you see a demon behind EVERY tree?
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
I saw the reference to Council. I have reviewed many Bylaws, this the first one that had "council".

Much more than demons.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Robert, the BOD might decide not to appoint someone if it was close the Annual meeting to allow the H/O’s to fill the vacancy. If it is not close and you can get enough signatures (I know you have a lot of absentee owners) you could call a special meeting for the purpose of electing someone.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Glen,
Of course the question here: does the Board have a choice when considering the requirements regarding vacancies. In fact there was four nmonths to go. According to the same conditions in the By-laws regarding vacancies it plainly designates the Board as the one to select (elect)the new member.

I think the Board could decide not to fill a position if it was close to election time, however that action would have to be reasonable and should be noticed to all members, 1/4 of a year does not seem to fall under a "short time."

The only way the members can elect someone to fill a vacancy is if that vacancy was the result of a recall. There is no mention in the by-laws that addresses the membership voting on a vacancy on the board other than a vacancy the membership created by a recall. At that point it seems to indicate that the membership doing the recall must elect the replacement the same time as the recall meeting.
MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Robert,

Here is my opinion:

Question #1: No. The bylaws are very clear that a vacancy ". . .caused by any ther reason than the removal of a Director by the members of the Council" SHALL be filled by a majority vote of the remaining members, meaning members of the Council (BOD).

Question#2: No, because the bylaws state "shall be filled" meaning they have no choice but to fill the vacancy.

Question #3: The quorum for a 4-member and 5-member board is 3, which is a majority of the board.

Just because the vote or any mention of a vote taking place was not recorded in the minutes does not mean it didn't happen. I've seen and heard minutes that were very much incomplete yet no board member motioned to amend them and they were approved as written. This happens all too often, it's sad to say!

If your docs call for open meetings, then, yes a notice of a meeting for the purpose of carrying out this action would be required. It depends upon what your docs and/or state law say about noticing board meetings. In AZ, a notice is required for ALL meetings of the assn.

MaryA1 (Arizona)
Posts: 7,043
Posted:
Richard,

Sorry, but I can't help but think that you have a very warped view of HOAs. Please don't judge all HOAs based upon how your BOD runs your HOA. Many, many HOAs are run very professionally and the board members are upstanding members of the assn. In answer to your last question: IMO, the majority of boards DO follow the gov docs and state law even knowing there may not be a state agency to ". . .watch the backs of the membership". This is called being good fiduciaries.

IMO, your answer to question #1 is not correct. The bylaw provision that Robert posted did not give the BOD the authority to either make the appointment or call for a special meeting to allow the members to vote to fill the vacancy. The bylaws explicitly say, the vacancy SHALL be filled by the Council (BOD).

With regard to your statement that ". . .too many boards make the appointment last for the duration of the other person's term instead of until the next election", it might surprise you to learn that is the way some bylaws are witten. Not all bylaws state the appointment is only until the next election. However, if the BOD isn't following what the bylaws say then it's up to the members to call them on it and perhaps mount a recall if they can't see the error of their ways. An errant board will only continue to operate that way if the members allow them to!

BTW, if Robert was posting the bylaws of a gov. agency, i.e., City Council, I don't believe they would call for a vacancy to be filled by the Council. City Council members are voted in by the citizens of the City. I would be extremely surprised to learn that some City Council members are elected by the Council even to fill a vacancy.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Robert,

In my opinion, based on what you provided and the expectation that the term council is the same as the membership:

1. Per the bylaws the vacancy must be filled [i.e.: shall] by the rest of the Board unless the vacancy occurred due to a recall.

2. Per the bylaws, the option of leaving it vacant can only be done if the vacancy was due to a recall. This is because if a recall occurred the Council (membership) elects a new Director at the next annual meeting.

3. 50% plus 1 for a five person or a four person board is still 3. Therefore, the question doesn't make sense to me. Based on your bylaws, I get the implication that there must be a five person board (even if the seat is vacant). Therefore, a quorum would always be three. Hence the wording in they bylaws:

"even though they may constitute less than a quroum . . ."

4 (additional question on recording): A vote should have been taken and recorded. If a majority was not reached, additional candidates should have been sought.

Side Notes: As long as there is a quorum of three, business can be legally accomplished by the Board. This fact is irregardless of the seat being vacant or not.

Your bylaws did not mention any requirement to advertise for candidates or any provide a time period to fill the vacancy (except for a recall which is then at the next annual meeting of the council). Therefore, the board could have a search committee (or just look for possible candidates on their own) and until a candidate is located no vote would be required or mentioned in the minutes. If this is done, the Board can be technically in compliance with your bylaws. Certainly a scummy thing to do but probably legal.

At least that's my take on it.

Tim
RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164
Posted:
Tim,
Double thanks for the info. I always give double thanks when someone agrees with me. Seriously, I do feel your conclusions are reasonable and with the info as provided I believe they are right.

Our Board, like all Board like to fall back and say "it's a Board decision, the Board has the latitude to make this decision". I don't blame them, it's a tough job with someone always questioning what you do, so I try and bring up valid issues and offer food for thought. Not always accepted that way and frankly, at times, I think they are just plain wrong. Oh well! I do support our Boards and try to understand why they do things, but have been around long enough to recognize when someone is "tap dancing."

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